Talos and Crete

 You said:

There is a myth of a metal or stone giant soldier coming to life and attacking the Argonauts. In the movie, it is defeated by removing some sort of hydraulic material from its heel, implying mechanics rather than magic. What is the real myth?

ChatGPT said:

Ah, I know exactly what you’re referring to—this is a creative adaptation of a story from the Argonautica, the epic poem by Apollonius of Rhodes. In the original myth, there isn’t a “hydraulic metal giant,” but there is a magical, enchanted guardian that the Argonauts have to deal with: Talos. Here’s the myth in its classical form:

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Talos, the Bronze Giant

• Talos was a giant made of bronze, created by Hephaestus (the god of metallurgy and crafts) to protect the island of Crete.

• He was essentially a living statue: he circled Crete three times daily to protect it from intruders.

• He could detect ships approaching and would throw huge rocks to smash them.

How Talos Was Defeated

• Talos was said to have a single vein running from his neck to his ankle, sealed with a bronze nail or plug. This vein contained ichor, the divine life-blood of the gods.

• According to Apollonius and later sources, Medea (the sorceress traveling with the Argonauts) either magically put him to sleep or tricked him into removing the bronze plug, causing the ichor to drain out, which killed him.

Key Points

• Talos is not hydraulic; the movie version you saw modernized him as a “mechanical robot” with fluids, likely for visual spectacle.

• In classical myth, it is magic and divine life-blood, not mechanics, that animates him.

• The “heel” or ankle plug is the weak spot, which is probably why the movie located the vulnerability there—it echoes the myth faithfully, but with mechanical flair.

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So, in short: the mythological Talos was a magical bronze giant with one life-giving vein, killed by Medea removing the plug that let his divine ichor flow out. No hydraulics—just magic and mythological biology.

If you want, I can also trace how Talos evolved into the “robotic enemy” in modern movies, which is a fascinating case of myth-to-pop culture translation. Do you want me to do that?

You said:

You mention Crete but the Argonauts were in the Black Sea. Is this just ancient geographical confusion?

ChatGPT said:

Exactly—that’s one of the quirks of Greek myth geography. In Apollonius’ Argonautica, Talos is indeed placed on Crete, not near the Black Sea, because Crete was famous in myth as a center of divine craftsmanship (Hephaestus’ creations, Zeus’ upbringing, etc.). But the Argonauts’ main voyage is across the Aegean, the Propontis, and the Black Sea.

So how do we reconcile it? There are a few possibilities:

1. Poetic License and Myth Compression – Ancient poets often moved stories around to suit their narrative. The Argonauts’ journey is a composite of multiple legendary adventures, not a strict voyage map. Talos’ story may have been inserted more for the drama of a “guardian giant” than for geographical consistency.

2. Confusion or Evolution of Local Legends – Some sources suggest Talos was originally a Cretan myth, but later retellings might have shifted the location. Ancient storytellers sometimes transposed well-known mythic figures into new settings for dramatic effect.

3. Symbolic Geography – Crete represented the edge of the known world and a place of magical craftsmanship. Talos doesn’t have to be literally “in the path” of the Argonauts; his episode could be symbolic of overcoming supernatural guardians along their journey.

So yes—there’s a bit of ancient geographical confusion mixed with narrative license. Greek myths rarely adhere to a strict map; they’re more about encounters, trials, and symbolic geography than accurate navigation.

If you want, I can make a short map of Talos’ “location” versus the Argonauts’ main route—it’s quite revealing how myth and geography interact. Do you want me to do that?

You said:

Are there other stories of Talos?

ChatGPT said:

Yes—Talos appears in a few other contexts, though the Argonautica story is the most famous. Most of the others are later or more fragmentary, but they show slightly different aspects of the bronze giant:

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1. Classical Sources Beyond Apollonius

• Diodorus Siculus (1st century BCE) also describes Talos as a bronze giant created by Hephaestus to protect Crete, circling the island three times a day and throwing stones at approaching ships. This basically confirms the same myth, though the focus is more on his role as an automaton guardian.

• Pseudo-Apollodorus gives a similar account: Talos had one vein sealed by a bronze nail, and Medea—or sometimes the Argonauts themselves—used trickery to defeat him.

2. Later Greek Mythography

• Some scholiasts (ancient commentators) expand on his construction: they suggest he might have been made from the molten bronze from the Cyclopes’ forges, emphasizing Hephaestus’ craftsmanship.

• In some versions, Talos is described almost like a magical robot or mechanical sentinel, which likely influenced modern interpretations.

3. Philosophical or Allegorical Uses

• Talos sometimes appears in allegorical texts as a symbol of rigid law, technological mastery, or the protective power of the state. For example, a scholar might compare Talos’ circumnavigation of Crete to a city’s walls patrolling its boundaries.

• In later literature, especially Roman retellings, Talos occasionally merges with other “giant guardians” or “automatons” in fanciful stories, sometimes even given personality or speech.

4. Possible Predecessors or Local Versions

• Some scholars suggest Talos may be a mythical echo of ancient bronze-age cult statues—bronze figures that might have seemed animate under ritual or myth.

• There’s speculation that “Talos” could have been a Cretan hero or king whose legend morphed into a giant automaton over time.

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In short: the core myth is the Argonauts/Crete story, but variations exist emphasizing his construction, supernatural vigilance, or symbolic meaning. The later “robotic” interpretations you see in movies are really just modern extrapolations of the idea of a giant bronze automaton.

If you like, I can make a timeline of Talos’ appearances and interpretations, from classical Greece to modern pop culture—it’s surprisingly rich for a single myth.

You said:

Were the classical age Greeks aware there had been a prior bronze age when iron was little known?

ChatGPT said:

Yes—but only in a vague, mythic sense, rather than as modern archaeology. The Greeks did conceive of a “Bronze Age”, though they didn’t have the precise chronological awareness we do. Instead, it came through poetic and legendary memory. Hesiod’s Works and Days (8th–7th century BCE) is the clearest source:

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Hesiod’s Ages of Man
Hesiod divides human history into successive “ages,” each with its own metal, which roughly reflects technological stages:

1. Golden Age – ruled by Cronus, a mythic utopia; humans lived without toil and without aging.

2. Silver Age – humans were inferior, foolish, and short-lived; seasons and agriculture begin to appear.

3. Bronze Age – humans made warlike by bronze; they used bronze weapons and armor, lived in houses of bronze, and eventually destroyed themselves.

4. Heroic Age – partially overlaps with the Bronze Age in time; includes the generation of Thebes, Troy, and other epic heroes.

5. Iron Age – Hesiod’s present day; hardship, toil, and moral decline dominate.

So the Greeks knew in a literary sense that there had been a “bronze era” before iron. They associated it with heroic activity and monumental works, but it was mythologized, not historically precise. There’s no evidence they had knowledge of metallurgical sequences beyond observation of the artifacts around them.

Key points:

• They were aware that bronze preceded widespread iron, but in moral and poetic terms, not archaeological or technological terms.

• Stories like Talos (a bronze giant) fit perfectly in that imagined heroic/bronze epoch, when metals were powerful, magical, and closely tied to gods.

• Hesiod’s Ages of Man influenced later Greek thought: even Plato and historians like Herodotus sometimes allude to earlier “metallic” ages in a semi-historical way.

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If you want, I can show how this “bronze age” perception influenced myths of bronze warriors and automatons like Talos—it’s fascinating how technology and legend merged in Greek imagination. Do you want me to do that?

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