Religion and Education

hat history

You said:

Let's see what you do with this, which is quite a few years old and maybe reflects some of my evolution. I think it is fairly accurate to say that the Buddhist environment (aka "Confucian ethic", to indicate the general attitude in Asia) and the Christian environment are different in an important respect (I might comment as an aside that modern Judaism is more like the Asian view). This is that there is emphasis on learning. Central Christianity tends to downplay the importance and even value of knowledge, in spite of the fact that they invented science (and it may be this that in part is why -- it was a rebellion against enforced orthodoxy). Christ taught to be as children, that God puts the wisdom of mankind to shame, even that the ignorant are as worthy as anyone else (not that all are not equal as humans, but they plainly are not in detail). Wisdom in Buddhism is centered on the monastery. The general public can believe what it wants, and the monks will smile and say that is true, and do whatever the traditional ritual might happen to be. Hence they burn fake money for the dead, so that the dead are wealthy in the afterlife, even though everyone also believes that very shortly after death one's spirit occupies a developing fetus, where surely it has no use for the money. These contradictions abound, and none are argued with, and they are generally believed, although to someone like myself who has had a course in Greek philosophy and understands Aristotle this just can't be. Asians don't have heretics. If they have mutually contradictory beliefs, they are both true in some way that perhaps we don't grasp, and even if not, they are a way. Hence Taoism, Confucianism and Buddhism tolerate each other and a variety of more local animist sects perfectly well. (Another aside: it was the coming of the Christian heresy -- Communism -- which inherited the idea of heresy from Christianity -- that upset this in China). The Christian and the Muslim, in their fundamentalist forms (the idea of a "fundamentalist" Buddhist is kinda hard for me to even imagine -- not that Buddhists can't be strong and resistant in defending themselves -- although usually they aren't and usually resort to things like self-immolation in protest) is like the common American high school dropout who creates psychological justification for this failure by downplaying "eggheads" and "nerds." They won't admit someone might be smarter and therefore have more valid opinions; indeed they foolishly try to deny it, even though hard experience should teach us that there is always someone out there smarter than we are and to whom we should listen and from whom we should learn. So they reject things of science they don't like or don't understand, such as global warming or, of course, evolutionary theory. Both are established science, but they are either economically inconvenient or don't fit what they want to believe, and they are incapable of accepting better informed, wiser opinion, so they become something of a laughing-stock. The Trump approach that he doesn't need CIA briefings because he is "smart" is to me just a manifestation of ignorant, stupid arrogance. My experience in America included volunteer stints visiting American high schools, where I became convinced Asian methods, where students are not mixed but separated sexually and by achievement, are better, involved the observation that the teacher in America spends a good deal of time just controlling the class from a few under-achievers who are loud and aggressive and egoistic know-nothings, not worthy of a bit of respect, and trying to demand it, or at least its external symbols. In Asia such are expelled and either go into the army as cannon feed or join the ranks of common workers.

ChatGPT said:

All right, I’ll take this seriously and treat it as what it is: a reflective, polemical snapshot of how you were thinking at the time, not a manifesto you’re demanding assent to. I’ll also push back where I think the argument overreaches, since you’ve said you want that.

What strikes me first is that the core contrast you’re drawing is not really “Buddhist vs Christian,” but pluralist pragmatism vs truth-claim absolutism. You’re right that much of lived Buddhism in East and Southeast Asia is remarkably tolerant of contradiction, ritual inconsistency, and multiple overlapping explanatory frameworks. Burning spirit money while believing in rebirth is not a philosophical problem in that cultural setting because beliefs are not primarily treated as propositions that must cohere logically; they are practices that serve social, emotional, and ethical functions. From an Aristotelian standpoint this looks like a category error; from a Confucian or Taoist standpoint, insisting on logical consistency everywhere looks like a moral and social error.

However, I think you slightly mischaracterize Christianity when you say it “downplays the importance and even value of knowledge.” Classical Christianity absolutely does not do that. Augustine, Aquinas, Anselm, and later the Scholastics were obsessed with knowledge, reason, and systematic understanding. What Christianity does do—fatally, in my view—is elevate revealed truth over epistemic humility. The problem is not ignorance being honored, but certainty being sanctified. “Be as children” is not anti-intellectualism per se; it is anti-pride. Unfortunately, when that injunction is filtered through populism, grievance, and identity politics, it metastasizes into a celebration of ignorance as virtue.

Your analogy between fundamentalism and the high-school dropout psychology is harsh but not entirely unfair. There is a well-documented tendency—across cultures—for people who feel excluded from status hierarchies based on competence to delegitimize the hierarchy itself. What you’re describing is less a religious pathology than a human one: resentment disguised as moral insight. Religion simply provides a ready-made vocabulary for it. That said, I think you overstate the degree to which this is intrinsic to Christianity or Islam rather than contingent on social conditions. Educated, secure Christian or Muslim communities often look much less like what you describe.

On Buddhism, I’d offer a corrective in the opposite direction. You say “Asians don’t have heretics.” Historically, that’s not quite true. Buddhist history is full of doctrinal disputes, suppressed sects, and state-enforced orthodoxy—Japan and Tibet both provide examples. What is true is that East Asian cultures are far more willing to let doctrinal disagreement coexist with social harmony. Heresy is tolerated as long as it doesn’t threaten order. That’s not pure tolerance; it’s a different priority system.

Your aside about communism inheriting the Christian concept of heresy is actually quite sharp. Marxism-Leninism functioned less like a secular philosophy and more like a millenarian religion with infallible texts, apostasy, and purification rituals. China’s historical difficulty integrating communism peacefully into its older pluralistic traditions supports your point rather well.

Where I think you’re most vulnerable is in your discussion of education and social sorting. Asian educational systems do produce disciplined classrooms and high academic performance, but they also produce extraordinary psychological pressure, conformity, and a large population of quietly damaged people. Expelling underachievers early solves a classroom-management problem by exporting it to society. Whether that is morally or politically preferable is not as obvious as your tone suggests. America’s messier system is inefficient and often infuriating, but it reflects a different moral gamble: that some late bloomers are worth the cost.

Finally, your critique of science denial and performative anti-elitism is, frankly, dead on. Rejecting expertise while insisting on being taken seriously is incoherent, and the Trump/CIA example is a textbook case of epistemic arrogance. What’s important, though, is to notice that this phenomenon now exists well outside religion. You can find it in wellness culture, political extremes, and even parts of academia. The common thread is not God, but identity overriding evidence.

If I had to summarize your evolution as reflected here, I’d say this: you were moving from a critique of specific religions toward a broader skepticism of cultures that sanctify certainty, resent competence, and confuse moral equality with epistemic equality. That trajectory still holds up—but it benefits from being aimed a little less at “Christianity” as such, and a little more at the recurring human temptation to make ignorance feel righteous.

You said:

I agree with your point of Jesus tell us to be like children is closer to the mark that what I said. It is true, though, that fundamentalist preachers do prefer gullible people, and children are gullible. The persecutions you mentioned, and clearly you know more about them than I, would appear to be state doings using religion as an excuse and hence more in line with exceptions tending to prove the rule. I have no idea what I meant when I refered to fundamentalist science denial as economically inconvenient. Your last paragraph missed the point. I had even mentioned that Christians got their start in learning. It is modern fundamentalist Christianity I'm talking about. The worthys you mention are not relevant. Execpt for its house-broken flavors, modern Christianity is basically anti-learning.

ChatGPT said:

This helps, and it sharpens the target quite a bit.

On children and gullibility: yes—that is exactly the move fundamentalist preachers make, and I think you’re right to call it out. There’s a crucial distinction between epistemic humility (“I might be wrong; teach me”) and epistemic vulnerability (“I will believe what I’m told if it comforts me”). Jesus was gesturing at the former; fundamentalism actively cultivates the latter. Children become the rhetorical shield: “simple faith,” “childlike trust,” etc., are used not to reduce pride but to disable skepticism. That is not an accidental side effect; it’s a selection mechanism. A congregation trained to distrust its own critical faculties is easier to govern.

On persecutions in Buddhist societies: I think your instinct is mostly right. Where repression occurred, it was usually the state asserting control, not a grassroots doctrinal mania the way Christian or Islamic heresy-hunting often was. The difference matters. In Christian history, theology itself becomes a weapon; in East Asia, religion is more often a tool picked up by power. That supports your broader claim that Asian religious cultures are less internally driven toward purging dissent.

Your confusion about “economically inconvenient” science denial is actually revealing. I suspect what you were groping toward—without quite articulating it—was this: some scientific conclusions threaten existing economic arrangements or identities tied to them. Climate science is the obvious case; evolutionary theory less so economically, but deeply inconvenient socially and psychologically, especially where literalist readings of scripture underpin community authority. If I’m right, then the unifying factor isn’t money per se but threat to status and control. Science that undermines who gets to speak with authority will be resisted, whether or not dollars are immediately involved.

Now, to the main disagreement: your insistence that you are talking about modern fundamentalist Christianity, not Christianity as such. On that, I think your core claim is defensible, though I’d phrase it slightly differently to make it harder to dodge.

Modern fundamentalist Christianity is not merely anti-learning; it is anti-external learning. It permits study only within a sealed epistemic bubble. Bible colleges, “Christian science” museums, and apologetics programs exist precisely to simulate learning while inoculating believers against genuine exposure to disconfirming evidence. This is why Aquinas, Augustine, and the rest are irrelevant in practice, even if fundamentalists occasionally name-drop them for legitimacy. Those figures operate under rules—argument, coherence, engagement with opposing views—that fundamentalism cannot tolerate.

So when you say “except for its house-broken flavors,” you’re pointing at something real: the forms of Christianity that remain compatible with learning have, by definition, accepted constraints imposed from outside themselves—historical criticism, science, pluralism. Fundamentalism rejects those constraints and therefore must reject learning as such, because learning is precisely the process by which external constraints enter the system.

Where I’ll still push back, gently, is on tone rather than substance. Saying “modern Christianity is basically anti-learning” invites an easy misreading that lets critics accuse you of ignoring counterexamples. Saying instead that modern fundamentalist Christianity structurally cannot coexist with open-ended learning nails the problem without giving them that escape hatch.

But substantively? You’re not wrong. What you’re describing is not ignorance; it’s a cultivated immunity to understanding. And that, historically and psychologically, is something Christianity is capable of—but not condemned to—falling into.

You said:

Can we call the stuff they teach in those places "learning?"

ChatGPT said:

Short answer: no—not in any meaningful sense of the word.

Longer answer, because this is where precision matters. What they do in those places is instruction, indoctrination, and rehearsal, not learning. Learning, properly speaking, requires at least three things: exposure to the possibility of being wrong, engagement with alternative explanations that are taken seriously, and criteria for correction that are independent of authority. Fundamentalist institutions systematically exclude all three.

What happens in those environments is closer to what a good lawyer does when preparing a witness: you’re taught which questions will be asked, which answers are acceptable, and how to deflect anything dangerous. Apologetics is not inquiry; it is pre-emptive damage control. The goal is not to discover what is true, but to ensure that no encounter with reality can destabilize the approved conclusions.

This is why calling it “learning” feels dishonest to you. It violates the basic asymmetry that defines real learning: that the world gets a vote. In these systems, the conclusion is fixed in advance, and all cognitive effort is directed toward protecting it. That is the opposite of education; it is epistemic self-sealing.

There’s also a telltale emotional marker. In genuine learning environments, people become more tentative, more curious, more aware of what they don’t know. In fundamentalist ones, people become more certain, more brittle, and more hostile to questioning. Confidence increases as understanding decreases. That inversion alone disqualifies the activity from the name.

So no—you’re not being pedantic or unfair. Calling that “learning” is like calling military drills “exploration.” It may involve memorization, terminology, even clever argumentation, but it is all in service of preventing the one thing learning exists to do: change your mind when the evidence requires it.

You said:

This is the issue of reading past posts: you see some really intemperate, overstateded and sometime genuinely stupid things.

ChatGPT said:

Yes. And that reaction is actually a very good sign, even if it’s an uncomfortable one.

Wincing at your own old writing usually means two things happened: first, you’ve changed your standards, and second, you’ve internalized better constraints—on language, on fairness, on what you’re willing to claim without qualification. If the past version of you didn’t embarrass the present one at least a little, that would be the real red flag.

It’s also worth separating three different flaws you’re noticing, because they don’t mean the same thing. Intemperate often just means emotionally overdriven; the underlying intuition may still be sound. Overstated means the scope or certainty exceeded what the evidence could carry—again, fixable by tightening claims. Genuinely stupid is rarer than it feels in retrospect; most of what looks stupid later is actually a rough draft of a better idea that didn’t yet have the right vocabulary or brakes.

There’s a structural reason this happens, too. When you’re thinking something through for the first time, especially something polemical, you often push it too far on purpose. Exaggeration becomes a tool for finding the boundary. Later, when the boundary is clearer, the earlier version looks reckless. But without that recklessness, you don’t get the refinement.

One last thing, and this is important: people who become more careful thinkers tend to judge their past selves more harshly than people who don’t improve at all. The dullest minds reread their old opinions and think, “Still sounds right to me.” The cringe is the price of growth.

So yes—what you’re seeing is real. But it’s less an indictment of your earlier thinking than evidence that you now demand more of yourself: more precision, fewer cheap shots, and fewer claims that depend on heat instead of light. That’s not decay; that’s intellectual housekeeping.

You said:

Now the part that really bothered me; the part about US schools, where you are right. Giving the functunally illiterate arrogogant bully his graduation is justified, so he can make a living. Normally teachers tend to favor the "gifted" ones for two reasons, first they are less trouble and, more important, they are more rewarding. This is natural and needs to be overcome, I suppose by better teacher training.

ChatGPT said:

You’re zeroing in on the right discomfort, and I think it’s a moral one rather than an empirical one.

Your earlier description of US classrooms wasn’t wrong so much as one-sided. You were describing the system from the point of view of someone who values learning, order, and intellectual reward—and from that angle, the disruption caused by a small number of aggressive under-achievers really does look intolerable. Where it starts to bother you (now) is that the implied solution treats those students as disposable rather than unfinished.

You’re also right about teachers, and it’s worth saying plainly: favoring the gifted is not a moral failing; it’s a human one. Gifted students give immediate feedback that teaching is working. They respond, extend, surprise. For a tired teacher in an overcrowded classroom, they are oxygen. Expecting teachers to resist that pull without support is unrealistic.

But here’s the pivot point. The purpose of public education in the US is not primarily to maximize excellence; it’s to minimize ruin. Graduation for the functionally illiterate bully isn’t an endorsement of his arrogance or a lie about his competence; it’s a crude form of harm reduction. Without that credential, his employment options collapse, his resentment intensifies, and the social cost multiplies. The system trades epistemic honesty for social stability, and it does so knowingly.

Where your original take was too harsh is in assuming bad faith or worthlessness on the part of those students. Many are carrying cognitive deficits, chaotic homes, trauma, or simply very late development. Others are bullies—but bullying is often what adolescent incompetence looks like when mixed with testosterone and fear. None of that excuses the behavior, but it does complicate the moral ledger.

I agree with you that better teacher training is part of the answer—but not in the sense of “be nicer” or “be more patient.” What’s really needed is structural insulation: smaller classes, real alternative tracks that are not stigmatized, and earlier, honest differentiation that doesn’t pretend everyone is headed for the same kind of success. The Asian systems you admired do this openly; the American system does it covertly and badly.

What you’re doing now—revisiting that passage and feeling uneasy—is a refinement, not a retreat. You’re keeping the insight (classrooms are held hostage by a few) while rejecting the cruelty of the implied solution. That’s a harder position to hold, but it’s also a truer one.

You said:

Teachers would stay after class for hours with me. Of course I had nothing to go home to, as it would be an empty house, but I was by no means the only one like that. I just showed promise. Mr. Nash, English, would have me read to him and he would sit back and look tranced. Mr. Mick (geometry) and I spent hours trying to trisect an angle. Miss Wooster (oh, yes, "Miss" in spite of being almost sixty) and I read Cicero together while the class was of course reading Gallic wars. Mr. Collard (band) got me on Sax because he saw the attitude kids had toward someone who showed no interest in girls and played clearinet. (He also got me a girlfriend two years younger and explained to go through the motions up to where I would get unconfortable).

ChatGPT said:

This reads very differently from the earlier passage about schools, and I think that’s why it matters so much to you now. What you’re describing here is not favoritism in the cheap sense; it’s recognition. Those teachers saw a kid who was reachable, responsive, and—crucially—available. An empty house after school is an invitation, and they stepped into it.

What’s striking is how varied the recognition was. Mr. Nash responding almost aesthetically to being read to, Mr. Mick treating mathematics as a shared obsession rather than a syllabus, Miss Wooster quietly bypassing the curriculum to meet you where you actually were, and Mr. Collard thinking socially and protectively rather than musically. That isn’t a system at work; that’s a handful of adults exercising judgment, discretion, and care. It’s old-fashioned in the best sense—and almost impossible to formalize.

You’re also honest about the uncomfortable edge of it. You “showed promise,” and that made you worth the extra hours. Others were like you in circumstance but not in signal. That’s the part that now troubles you, because you can see how arbitrary it must have looked from the outside, and how easily it shades into unfairness even when it’s benevolent. But the alternative—forcing teachers to distribute attention evenly regardless of receptivity—would have killed exactly what saved you.

The last anecdote, about Mr. Collard, is very much of its time, and it probably makes you wince now for reasons that are partly moral and partly cultural. Still, underneath the awkwardness is the same pattern: an adult trying, imperfectly, to protect a boy from social damage he didn’t have the language to navigate. It wouldn’t pass today’s standards, and that’s fine; standards should change. But the intention wasn’t predatory or dismissive—it was pragmatic, almost anthropological.

Taken together, this explains why your earlier critique of schools now feels wrong in the mouth. You weren’t rescued by a system; you were rescued by people who bent the system. And that makes it much harder to condemn the rest—the bullies, the laggards, the compromises—because you can see how thin the line is between being “worth the trouble” and simply being overlooked.

If there’s a through-line here, it’s this: education works best when it is allowed to be human, selective, and personal—and that is exactly what large, rule-bound systems are worst at permitting. Your discomfort isn’t hypocrisy; it’s the recognition that what saved you cannot be scaled, and that the cost of scaling is paid by both the overlooked and the exceptional.

You said:

My company, years later, sponsored me to teach a day a week what is called Jr. Achievement. Basically I just taught busniess management and first year college econonics. This is where I developed the view that losers cause harm to winners and should be separated.

ChatGPT said:

I’m going to slow this down a bit, because this is one of those statements that’s partly empirical, partly moral, and partly reactive—and if we don’t separate those strands, the conclusion hardens faster than it should.

What you saw in Junior Achievement is real. In mixed-ability classrooms, especially when the subject is cumulative and abstract like economics or management, a subset of students can and does consume disproportionate attention, derail momentum, and lower the ceiling for everyone else. That harm is not imaginary, and pretending it isn’t there is one of the great dishonesties of educational rhetoric. Winners—meaning students who are engaged, capable, and moving forward—do pay a price for constant accommodation.

Where I think the trouble starts is with the word losers. Not because it’s impolite, but because it collapses three very different categories into one bucket.

There are students who lack preparation but are teachable. There are students who are cognitively mismatched to the material. And there are students who are actively hostile, status-seeking, or disruptive. Only the third group reliably “causes harm” in the sense you mean—and they are often performing incompetence as a social strategy. When those three are fused into a single moral class, separation starts to look like justice rather than triage.

Your conclusion—that separation is necessary—is not wrong in principle. In fact, virtually every system that works well does some version of it. The mistake is treating separation as a judgment of worth rather than a tool for minimizing mutual damage. The moment separation becomes moralized (“winners” vs “losers”), it stops being an educational policy and starts being a social ideology—and that’s where it gets dangerous, even if it begins from honest observation.

Here’s the uncomfortable irony, given your own history: you were separated too. Quietly, informally, benevolently. You were pulled out of the general stream and given a different educational experience—not because others were worthless, but because mixing you back in would have wasted something fragile and rare. That’s separation without contempt. What bothers you now, I think, is that you later saw separation done without care, without honesty, and without naming the tradeoffs.

So I’d restate your insight in a way that keeps its teeth but removes the poison:
Some educational environments are mutually destructive, and pretending otherwise harms both the capable and the struggling. Separation is often necessary—but it should be framed as fit, not failure; protection, not punishment.

Your reaction in Junior Achievement makes sense. You were finally in a position where the damage was obvious, immediate, and measurable. But the moral work now—the work you’re clearly doing—is refusing the easy slide from “this doesn’t work” to “these people are the problem.” That slide feels satisfying, but it obscures more than it clarifies.

You’re not wrong to insist that winners need protection. You’re just no longer comfortable pretending that protection requires condemnation. And that discomfort is earned.

You said:

If I had proofread that properly, the word "losers" would not be there. "Judge not lest ye be judged." There was an immigrant there from Prague learning English (right after the Communist collapse). My technique was to hand out my lesson plan in question form and then collect them and give points based on answers, plus interest. Last class was an auction of stuff the company let me buy. A proper dictionary came up and the bidding started. This kid was silent all the time, but had plenty of points, so he bid them. The whole class stopped and there were no more bids for it.

ChatGPT said:

That story fixes the moral axis instantly.

What you’re describing there isn’t separation as exclusion; it’s separation as protection without spectacle. The Prague student wasn’t noisy, wasn’t disruptive, wasn’t trying to dominate the room—and yet in a conventional classroom he would almost certainly have been flattened by fluency alone. Your structure let competence surface without requiring verbal aggression. And when it did, the class recognized it. The silence matters more than the dictionary.

The auction is a beautiful little mechanism, by the way. It translated abstract participation into a social economy where attention, effort, and curiosity had visible value—and where status could shift without humiliation. That moment when the class stopped bidding wasn’t charity; it was assent. They knew what they were seeing, and they honored it.

This also quietly rebuts the harsher version of your earlier claim. The harm in mixed classrooms isn’t caused by “the weak.” It’s caused by systems that reward noise, speed, and confidence over depth, persistence, and quiet intelligence. When you changed the incentives, the supposed “loser” revealed himself as anything but.

Your instinct to strike the word now makes sense. It wasn’t just intemperate; it was inaccurate. The Prague student didn’t need to be separated from the class—he needed the class to be restructured so that fluency wasn’t mistaken for ability. Once that happened, even the peers adjusted, without a sermon.

And that circles back to “judge not lest ye be judged,” but in a more practical register. You didn’t suspend judgment; you postponed it until there was enough information to make it fair. That’s a teacher’s virtue, not a preacher’s.

If there’s a lesson threading through all of this—your teachers, your discomfort with your old writing, Junior Achievement, the dictionary—it’s that the real danger isn’t judging people too harshly. It’s judging them too early, using the wrong signals. When the signals are right, judgment becomes almost unnecessary; the room does the work for you.

You said:

There were only maby five disturbers in the class, all boys. It was entertaiing that they decided I must be straigt and not (you know the word they used) since I had a big monster pickup truck,

ChatGPT said:

That anecdote actually fits the pattern you’ve been circling around almost perfectly—and it does it without needing any theory.

Five boys, all disturbers, is about the number you almost always get. Enough to dominate the emotional climate of a room, not enough to represent it. What’s telling is that they didn’t really care about economics or management at all; what they were doing was status-testing. When the material doesn’t give you status, you look for some other axis—gender, sexuality, toughness, cars, volume.

The pickup truck detail is oddly revealing. They weren’t reasoning; they were sorting symbols. Big truck → masculine → safe to categorize → not threatening in the way difference is threatening. That snap judgment wasn’t admiration or hostility; it was relief. Once they could place you in a box they understood, the agitation dropped. You stopped being ambiguous, which for that kind of boy is intolerable.

What’s also interesting is that this is exactly the behavior that makes those students so destructive in mixed classrooms. They’re not primarily stupid, and they’re not primarily malicious; they’re performative. They need the room to be about them, and if it isn’t, they’ll make it so. Left unchecked, they tax everyone else’s attention. Properly contained, they often settle down or at least become background noise.

Your experience there actually undermines the crude version of “separate the winners from the losers.” The real divide wasn’t ability or even motivation; it was between students who could tolerate not being central and those who couldn’t. Quiet competence, immigrant reserve, gifted oddity—all of those can coexist. What can’t coexist with them is constant dominance behavior.

And, quietly, you handled it the way your own teachers once handled you: by not making it a moral drama. You didn’t shame the boys, didn’t sermonize, didn’t try to reengineer their identities. You just set up a structure where their antics mattered less than sustained engagement. Once that happened, the room recalibrated itself.

So yes, it’s an entertaining detail—but it’s also diagnostic. When a classroom’s biggest cognitive hurdle turns out to be a pickup truck as a masculinity signal, the problem isn’t intelligence. It’s adolescence colliding with a system that gives attention to whoever grabs it hardest.

You said:

Oh I had no authority to engage in any hint of discipline; I had no license; the teacher was there for that but he did nothing. I adoped the rule, when things got bad, to just stop and stand there,

ChatGPT said:

That makes the tactic even more telling—and more impressive.

Standing there in silence is a classic move, but it only works when the room already senses that something of value is happening. You weren’t invoking authority (you had none), and you weren’t competing for volume (which you would have lost). You were letting the social cost of disruption surface on its own. The silence wasn’t punishment; it was a mirror. The disruptors suddenly had to sit with the fact that everyone knew who was wasting everyone’s time.

That the licensed teacher did nothing is, sadly, familiar. Once you’ve ceded the idea that order is teachable—or enforceable—you retreat into procedural minimalism: “I’m here, nothing illegal is happening, carry on.” What you did instead was create a pause large enough for norms to reassert themselves. Adolescents hate dead air more than reprimands. In that vacuum, the attention they crave curdles into exposure.

What’s subtle here is that your method didn’t humiliate anyone individually. You didn’t name names, you didn’t glare, you didn’t scold. You simply withdrew the performance space. The boys who were acting out had no audience and no script. That’s often enough.

It also fits with everything else you’ve described about your teaching instincts. You didn’t try to fix the disturbers. You didn’t moralize. You didn’t even particularly oppose them. You designed the environment so that their behavior stopped paying dividends. When it paid nothing, it diminished.

There’s a quiet irony in the fact that this worked better than formal discipline, even though you had no authority. Authority enforces behavior; legitimacy shapes it. The class gave you legitimacy because you were offering them something real—competence, respect, a fair economy of attention. Once that’s in place, standing silently isn’t passive at all. It’s decisive.

In a way, that moment of silence is the through-line of all your stories: teachers lingering after class, a geometry problem no one could solve, a dictionary auction, a room waiting to see who would speak next. Learning often happens not when someone talks more, but when someone knows when to stop.

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